Planning
Marking Utilities and other Obstacles
The first thing we need to do is have your underground utility lines marked so you know where to be careful when digging. 811 is a free service that alerts water, sewer, electricity, cable and gas suppliers to mark your property with the route of any underground utility lines. Simply call 811 and the utility companies will mark their underground utility lines with either flags or spray paint. It can take up to a week so you will want to call now. If you have privately installed any utilities like a septic system or lines for gas cylinders you will want to mark these as well. Most utilities are deeply buried (over a foot deep) and you will only be burying the cables a few inches deep so usually underground utilities are not an issue, but it is better to be safe than sorry and dig carefully in areas where utilities are located.
If possible mark the location of any sprinkler system lines or low voltage power lines for any outdoor lighting system you have had installed. If you can’t determine the location of these lines, make your best guess. Damaging a sprinkler line or a low voltage power line is not a big deal, both are easy to fix. Just be sure to shut off the water and power before you start digging.
Sketch a Diagram
On grid paper, sketch a rough map of your property showing any buildings, paths, driveways, garden beds, underground utilities and other obstacles. Figure out which parts of the garden you want to give your dog access to and which parts you want to block access to.
Decide where you will locate the transmitter box. The transmitter should be located near a power outlet and protected from the elements. Inside a garage or electrified shed is ideal.
Now determine where you will run your fence. The fence needs to make a complete loop starting and ending at the transmitter box. You will use a pair of wires twisted together in places where you want the dog to be able to cross the wire safely. For more details on twisted wire, see here.
Some things to keep in mind when deciding on the placement of wires:
- Cross utility lines at right angles – you want to avoid running wire close to a utility line for an extended stretch because, in some rare instances a boundary wires running close to a utility wire can induce a signal in the utility wire making part of your home wiring trigger the collar receivers.
- Round corners - boundary wires should turn corners gradually, avoiding sharp 90 degree turns.
- Separate parallel boundary wires – Boundary wires emit signals that will cancel each other out, so you want any boundary wires that are parallel to each other to be at least six feet apart. Similarly, if your neighbors have a dog fence, keep your wires about six feet from theirs.
Sample Layouts
Perimeter Dog Fence Layout
The most popular layout runs along your yard’s perimeter. This layout allows your dog access to the entire property.
The twisted wire joins the house transmitter box to the boundary wire. This enables the dog to safely walk over the twisted wire path.
Where possible lay the boundary wire two yards back from the road to give a good safety buffer for you dog and to allow a space for pedestrians. Also try to allow three yards between the boundary wire and the house on at least one side to allow the dog room to pass between the front and back yard.
Backyard Dog Fence Layout
The challenge in doing a backyard only installation is that you want the house side of boundary to be inactive so your dog can freely enter and exit your home without getting the correction. However, for the system to work, you still need a full loop of single (untwisted wire). There are a number of approaches you can take:
The easiest way to make a complete loop, while only giving the dog access to the backyard is to make a loop that goes tight around the front of the house too. This completes the loop, but there is not enough space around the front of the house for the dog to have access to the front yard. When you do this type of layout, it is important to do a quick check with the collar inside the house to make sure that the signal is not inadvertently spilling into the house in rooms where you dog will stay. If there is a problem, just decrease the boundary width, or move the wire a little further from the front of your house.
Another popular method is go high over the back of your house. Run the wire up a downspout on one side of the house, across the gutter, and down the downspout on the other side of the house. This vertical height over the ground gives your dog enough space to get in and out of the back door without triggering the correction. As always, you want to test with the collar at the back door to make sure there is no signal accidentally reaching down where the dog will walk. Also test rooms near the gutter line to make sure there is no signal spilling into those rooms. If there is unwanted spill, turn down the boundary width setting on the control box until you are getting no spill.
The final method is to go around the three sides of the yard, then double back on yourself to make a U-shaped loop. The two opposite wires need to be separated by at least six feet to avoid the signals from one loop from interfering with the other. If they are too close you will not get a nice strong signal along the boundary, and you may have dead spots where there is no correction at all. If you already have a tall fence in place, on way to achieve this without digging is to run one leg of the wire along the top of the fence, and the return leg along the bottom of the fence, so you get the necessary separation.
Exclusion Zones
You can also add small exclusion zones to keep your dog out of small areas within your property. For example you may want your dog to have full access to your yard except a small garden bed.
To do this you loop some boundary wire around the area you want to protect and join the loop to the main loop with some twisted wire.
Hourglass Layout
The hourglass layout contains the dog in both the front and back yard, but does not allow the dog to cross between the front and back yard. This is great if you want the dog with you in the front or back yard but do not want them crossing between them.
Note that the two loops are connected to each other on the left hand side of this diagram and that they both connect to the transmitter box on the right hand side.
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{ 61 comments… read them below or add one }
We are considering a dog fence for our property, but have a question about the need to run wire at the back property line where there are already existing physical fences our neighbors have installed. Do we have to run boundary wire at the back fence line, or can we use twisted wire along that section, as long as we maintain a loop? Would twisted wire also be appropriate to connect a segment of boundary wire that is isolated between two physical boundaries?
Hi Laurie – the boundary wire always has to form a complete loop. You cannot use the twisted wire to replace a section of boundary wire.
Can the transmitter box be placed on a covered front porch attached to the house?
We have a power outlet on our front porch.
Dog Fence DIY Answer – as long as you are sheltered from the rain you are fine.
In order to stay within my property lines for a backyard only layout would I have to lay the outer wire on the property line resulting in the protected area being six feet inside the outer wire? I have a rather small back yard and would like to have the largest protected area possible.
ADMIN – Hi John
Here are another couple of options:
(1) Complete the loop by going along the front of the house, but close enough to the front that the dog could not actually go to he front yard.
(2) Complete the loop by going through the gutters in your backyard. (ie. along the three sides of your backyard then up the gutter downpipe, along the gutter line, and down the downpipe on the other side) The vertical height over your back door would still let hte dog go in and out through the back door.
Our property backs up to high tension overhead power lines. Do you know if that will cause any issues? The lines themselves are about 15-20 yards beyond where I would run the fence.
ADMIN – Hi Marty,
Hi Marty,
Power lines, even high voltage power lines aren’t a problem because there is so much vertical separation between the lines and the pet containment fence wire.
Hi – I would like to get a system for my 3 dogs and would ultimately like to do the backyard only design. I’m not understanding why that design requires a double-loop set up. Also, if I were to do the hour-glass design, so my front yard is also accessible, how do I do the wire across the driveway? I’m not keen on burying the wire, I’d prefer the no-dig method. Ehhh….I’m a single woman, digging is not my favorite thing to do.
I have a very large yard and like the idea of backyard only, since I like to walk them and don’t want to confuse them with which side of the house is the way we go for walks, and which is the side where they can run around like madmen.
ADMIN – Hi Donna,
(1) You need to make a complete loop for the system to work. Most people doing a backyard only and don’t want the loop to go across their back door, because they want the dog to be able to enter and leave the house freely without having to take the collars off. Hence the need for the double-loop or the hour-glass.
(2) To get across the driveway, most people find an expansion joint, cut across with a circular saw, insert the wire and then caulk over. If you don’t want to do that, if your expansion joints are deep enough, just place the wire in the expansion joint and caulk over if you can.
(3) Don’t dig, find a single man … digging is one of our few strong points
Seriously, it is fine if you don’t want to bury it, just staple it down really tightly to the ground, and when you mow raise the mower up to the highest setting. You will have to deal with the occasional break, but soon the grass will grow over it and you will be set.
Just for the record, it is not that hard to dig, just hire a trencher and let the machine do all the work.
Thanks for the answer! If I go wtih the double loop, that will significantly reduce the roaming area for the dogs, so I guess I’d need to get an expansion kit and splice the wires to connect them? I’ve done this with my stereo and a lamp I rewired, so I guess I can handle it.
I was going to wait until spring on this “little” purchase, but my puggle changed my mind last night when his collar broke on me twice last night and I had to go chasing him through the neighborhood. Guess I’ll be buying it today. Thanks for your help!
Now I’ve got to find the single man to dig the trench.
I’m about to move into a new home and would like to install a dog fence. My initial plan was to install a perimeter fence with a dog door on the side of the house so that our dog can let herself out. I am a bit concerned now that this setup is going to work because there is not a ton of room between the property line and the side of the house. If I place the wire directly on the property line, how close to the wire will our dog be able to get? Are there any tricks for this type of situation?
I was considering that I could change my layout to do a backyard only setup(double back loop) and use the returning loop along the properly line to cancel out a portion of the signal and “tune” the field width so that the dog can use the space. Will this work?
ADMIN – Hi Adam,
(1) You can adjust the width of the boundary. But as a practical matter, to let dogs through a thin spot you need at least 6 feet. You don’t want a boundary less than 3 feet because it is much thinner, it can be hard to train the dog as they start to figure out they can run through. Then you need about a three feet safety buffer for the dog to feel comfortable.
One trick, is that if you have a fence on the boundary line, you can put the line on top of the fence and the vertical separation reduces the effective width of the boundary in that section. Another trick is to find a sympathetic neighbour and see if they will let you go onto their property a little bit.
(2) The cancelling out is not very consistent (for the physics majors: you get interference patterns), you get some parts where is cancelled and some parts where it still works. So I would not rely on it.
I think it’s a wonderful and generous service to share your knowledge so freely! I learned a lot looking at your website – Thank you!
Now, to pick your brain! Two questions: 1.)We live on 2+ acres and along the front part of the property (450 feet) is a very busy highway and our driveway access. Clearly we want to keep Casper out of the highway but we walk her across the road into BLM property to get exercise. There is no gate across the driveway. How do we not confuse Casper that crossing the boundary we will lay parallel to the road is only okay to cross with us? 2.)You mention utility lines – ours are not buried but are on poles above and are located along the busy road and the boundary will run parallel to power lines. I thought I saw somewhere in your instructions that power lines on poles are far enough away as not to interfere with the boundary signal…… right? Thanks much!!
ADMIN – Hi Casper’s Mom (and presumably Casper’s Chef, Butler, Vet, Personal Trainer, and Buddy)!
Appreciate the compliment.
1) For the first few weeks, try and drive her over the boundary when you want to take her for a walk, so she doesn’t get confused. But after the first month, you can develop a routine for exiting the property. (Ours is, she comes to the door, I take off the dog fence collar, put on the walking collar, put her on a leash, and walk through the same part of the boundary every time). The dogs resist the first couple of times, but quickly learn that there is an exception when going on a walk with you.
There is a bit more information on the topic: http://www.dogfencediy.com/maintenance/walking-dog/
2) Overhead powerlines are not an issue. They are so high above the ground that you don’t get any interference. The issue ocassionally arrises when power lines are in the ground, parallel and close to the boundary wire. But, with overhead lines you get so much vertical separation that you are fine.
Wow! Fast response and what you said makes SO much sense – setting that routine! Thanks for the link too. Am currently pricing products but I’m impressed with your support – that says a lot to me!! Oh, and yes, this Mom is indeed chief chef and doggie hugger of Casper! Being a former NON-dog lover, she came to us as a stray and changed my mind! She worked her magic! Take care!!
Along the north side of my house, I have about a 10 foot gap between the house and the fence where I’d like to locate my line. In a portion of the area, the gap narrows to about 5 feet because of an air conditioning unit located alongside the house. I’d like the dogs to be able to use this area and pass through it. I bought the PetSafe Stubborn Dog Fence. Will this setup work? I did see the trick about locating the wire along the top of the fence. My dogs are big, but not stubborn, and are very friendly.
I also could skip this part and the rest of the yard where I have my fence if I doubleloop my layout. However, I would need to pass two sets of wire across my driveway where I only have a groove for one wire if I maintain the recommended 3-5 foot gap between wires. If I do the double loop, is my only alternative to cut another groove in my driveway? Finally, if I do double loop, do the correction and warning zones start from the inside or outside loop because I may have a gap problem on this side if it is the inside? Thanks.
ADMIN – Hi Bob,
Usually I would say that six feet is the minimum, that lets you set the fence at three feet wide and gives them another three feet safety space. You could make five feet work, especially if you locate the wire at the top of the fence which reduces it’s effective range.
Try the single loop first, the double loop is a pain and really cuts down on the usable space.
For a double loop, you would have to cut a second groove in the driveway, at least six feet from the first. The warning zone would start from the inside loop.
I have a fenced back yard where one side of the square is my house and the other 3 are split rail fencing. My dog jumps the 4 foot fence and I want to run the wire on the fence but allow the dog to enter the house. I don’t like the double loop because of the space it requires. 1. Can the twisted wire be run from transmitter and then have the other end tied together and connected to the boundary wire ( 3 wire spliced) so that a double loop is not required? If not, how high up would I need to go to run single wire over the doors? I have a 2 story house and don’t want to have to go that high to place in gutter.
ADMIN – Hi Gary,
Hi Gary,
Unfortunately there is no way to avoid having a complete loop of the boundary wire, you cannot use the twisted wire as part of the loop or do a 3 wire splice.
The height above the door depends on how wide you set the boundary width at the control box. You need at least that much clearance over the door to ensure the dog can come in and out of the house safely. Since we are coming up to fall, perhaps you can get whomever cleans out your gutters to run the wire for you?
Another option might be to do the double loop with one wire going along the top of the fence and the return leg going along the bottom of the fence. Just be sure to set the boundary width to something pretty low (i.e. about two feet), since the two wires are going to be only four feet apart and you don’t want interference between them.
I don’t have an outlet on an outside wall of my garage. How far can I run the twisted portion of my loop?
ADMIN – Hi Stephen,
There is no limit on the amount of twisted wire you can run.
So if we put the control box on the inside wall of the garage, we could run the wire along the walls to get to the outside wall. Alternatively, we could put the control box on the outside wall and run an extension cord from the inside wall outlet to the control box.
What is the maximum footage of wire I can run. I want to use it for my Austrailian Sheperd. We use him to work cattle on our farm. I would like to fun at least 3000 ft. minimum. If possable I would like to cove about 30 acres around the barn and cattle working areas. Also, would it be alright to run the wire down the fence line above ground. Would the electic fence wire interfer with the dog contro; wire.
Thanks,
dta
ADMIN – Hi Donald,
The maximum footage depends on the system. The ones to look at would be the Innotek 4100/5100, the SportDog and the Dogtra. The Innotek IUC 4100/5100 can do 25 acres (5000) feet. The Dogtra EF-3000 can do up to 40 acres (6000 feet). The SportDog SDF-100 can do 50 acres (7000) feet.
You can run the wire along a fence line, the wire does not need to be buried.
You can get interference from an electric fence, so it is best to stay six feet away. Sometimes you can get away with it, the only way to know for sure is to run a small length of line and see if everything works ok. But, again, best to give it a bit of distance.
Hi there! I obviously have a question for you. I am interested in the backyard only layout. We have about 1/3 acre back there, so the double boundries, I think, would stil rpvide plenty of room for my two puppies to run around. I have a 20 lb Llahsa Apso (1 year and likes to run) and a 6 month old lab mix that is shy. My question is: Since the boundry is doubled, does that mean that if one of the dog’s were to run through the first “zap” to the outer boundry, would there be another “zap” after that 6 foot buffer? Is it like having a double fence?
Thank You!
ADMIN – Hi Jen.
It would indeed behave like a double fence. The correction would occur in the vicinity of the first wire, then again in the vicinity of the second wire.
Great information and thanks for providing this. We live on a point of land surrounded on three sides by a lake. We’ve run a continuous loop across the fourth side of the property to keep the dogs from crossing. The lake keeps them confined on the other side as they only swim to chase balls or boat (which is why we don’t want to have the fence around the property in the summer). However, in the winter when the lake freezes, the dogs figure out that they can go just about anywhere they want. I am wondering if it’s possible to include another single run of wire around the property attached at one end of the existing loop and use a manual switch to alter the flow of the fence at the other end so that in the summer, it uses the closed loop in the front but in the winter, it switches one of the connections of the loop to go around the property.
ADMIN – Hi Kris,
You could absolutely have a switch that lets you change the configuration of the loop. When you do the switch every winter, I would just put the flags up for a couple of days to let them understand that the fence location has changed.
Your website has been extremely informative! Thansks so much! I am in the “ready to buy” phase for electic fence. I have a 5 foot physical fence around our backyard and two very persistent 11 lb. mini- dachshunds who find endless ways to escape and chase squirrels in the neighbors yard. I have to stop this for their safety and my peace of mind. Two questions for you. First, in order to complete the loop in my back yard only, can I go run the wire on the top and bottom of the 5 ft fence or is that not enough distance? Otherwise, I can use the gtter system you suggested to another person. One more option is to run up the gutter, through the attic and down the other side. Obviously, the fence would be the easiest if the 5ft vertical distance is enough.
Second, is the Petsafe Small dog the best choise for my size dogs? Not thrilled with the plastic collors or non-rechargeable batts. but if its the best choice for their size I can deal with it. Thanks for your knowledge:)
ADMIN – Hi Paige,
Thanks for the compliment! Try the top and bottom of the fence. With only 5 feet of separation, you will not be able to turn up the boundary width very high (probably 2-3 feet); but this should be fine since you already have a fence in place, so the dachshunds can’t really dash (sorry!) through he fence. It will be much faster and easier than going through the gutter. And on the off chance it is not working for you you can switch to the gutter/attic method pretty easily.
The PetSafe little dog is the best choice for dogs under 11lbs. But you are pretty close to the borderline, so you could try something rechargeable like the IUC-4100 instead. I think they would be happier with the small dog collar though.
ok, im trying to put in a seperate area for my dogs to stay out of. i have a perimeter all around my house, now i am trying to put up a small area to keep them out. at first i thought my 2 wires were to close, but i tried to seperate the wires and it still did not work. what i did was just stripped an area off my wire i had already and put both ends of the new area wire there, that did not work, so i seperated where i connected my 2 ends. that still did not work. do you have any suggestions to what i might be doing wrong?
ADMIN – Hi Nick,
I presume you are trying to put in an exclusion zone. You will need to cut the main boundary loop where you are going to connect in the exclusion zone loop . Splice one end of the main boundary loop wire to one end of the exclusion zone loop wire, and the other end of the boundary loop wire to the other exclusion zone loop wire.
I have a 4 yo rescued female Lab who (apparently) jumps our chain-link fences in the backyard. We have a high wood fence at the back of the property that she cannot get past, but a chain-link on each side of the back yard, so really it’s just those two sides we need to protect. Can I run the wire along the top of the side-fences and back-fence instead of burying it – and use your suggestion for the gutter along the back of the house?
ADMIN – Hi Dale,
Sounds like a good plan. You may consider running the wire along the bottom/middle of the chain fence to make it closer to where the dog’s collar will be when the dog is getting near the fence. The wire along the wood fence can go up high because we don’t mind if she gets close, but we want the chain link wire closer to dog height to stop her getting near that fence. (or you could turn up the boundary width so that the signal reaches the bottom of the chain link fence even if the wire is up high)
I’ve skipped around reading the other comments but if I understand what I’m picking up… If I want to do the backyard only set-up without the extra boundary line, I could run the wire through the gutter along the back of the house and down to the ground on each end, then out and around the backyard? Being that the wire would be up along the gutter it would be far enough away that the dogs wouldn’t get zapped coming in or going out of the house?
We have 2 schnoodle pups, about 3-1/2 months old. Are they too young to start working with them on this?
ADMIN – Hi Stacey,
Going through the gutter will work. You want to have the boundary width turned down enough so that the signal is not reaching the ground from the gutter. (3-5 feet is fine for most people). Then you want to use the collar to test that the correction signal is not getting anywhere where unintended. you want to have a safety buffer of a few feet to make sure that the dog isn’t getting the correction anywhere unintended.
When to start training pups? I like to wait till six months, many pups just aren’t cognitively ready to focus on training until then. If the owner really wants, I will train dogs as young as four month provided the dogs can confidently do a sit, stay and come.
I’m looking into adding an invisible fence to an existing chain link fence. My dogs are determined diggers and have found a variety of ways out including through concrete poored in the holes. The problem is that the dog pen is away from any power source and is 50′x 50′. Two questions 1) is there a way to power it through solar power perhaps, and 2) will it reduce their area by a lot if I put it on the fence? Our property includes about 4 acres, and chickens which they like to massacare…so I really don’t want to give them the run of the property. Also, I’m concerned that the deterrant may not be enough to keep them from the chickens. What do you think?
ADMIN – Hi Brandy,
There is not a good alternative power source that I am aware of. Perhaps you could put the control box in the nearest powered structure and run the wire over to the dog pen.
The system will reduce the usable are of the pen. You can set the wideness of the correction field and are probably going to want it set to about 3 feet at first. The dogs will also not get too close at first, so I would say you would end up with an effective area of 40′ x 40′. Once they are used to the system, you can narrow the correction area, and probably expand the usable area a couple more feet.
Chickens are always going to be a temptation, but one you can overcome. The key is the training. I would be nice and consistent with the training.for the first two weeks. Then in the third week I would use a chicken to test their compliance and make sure they learn that the boundary rules needs to be heeded even if there is a plump juicy chicken strutting past the cage. The more you can practise with the specific temptation the better.
How big an area can a system cover? I’m looking at 12 acres.
ADMIN – Hi Bill,
The systems have different capacities and can go up to 100 acres. Some examples, PetSafe Stubborn (10 acres); Innotek IUC-4100 (25 acres); and the SportDog SDF-100 (100 acres)
Can i run 1 leg of the boundry wire under my house in my crawlspace to get to the otherside of the house to join up with the other leg? If i do this will this setup trigger the collar while the dog is in the house?
ADMIN – Hi Chuck,
You can run wire under the house in the crawlspace, but you want to lay it as low down as possible and adjust the boundary width dial to stop the signal penetrating up into the house. You will want to test up in the house with the collar to ensure that you are not inadvertently getting the signal up in the house.
First off, thanks for a surprisingly informative website for us dog lovers! Truly impressive that you’re sharing these tips with us, and I see you promptly respond to posts. We’re very appreciative!
I have a stray mama lab mix and two puppies who recently “adopted” us. I think mama may have had the pups under my barn. I have 10 acres, and want to give the dogs 2 or 3, in the back yard and your design tips have been valuable. Could you explain a bit more how to deal with running the wires across a paved (asphalt) driveway?
ADMIN – Hi Steve,
The Labrador puppy is really irresistible! Congratulations on the new family!
Three basic options: over, under or through. You can run he wire over the driveway, some people will use a plastic bridge or an old hosepipe to protect the wire and some people will just lay it over the driveway naked. You can tunnel under the driveway although that is a major pain unless there is already a conduit in place. But, what most people will do is cut a shallow slot across the driveway using a circular saw, lay the wire and then fill over it with an outdoor caulk.
There is a lot more information on the installation section of the website in the driveways sections.
I just put in an invisible fence and am having problems. I had professionals install the wire and unit for me and at first it seemed to work ok. The next morning I came downstairs and the collars were going crazy beeping and vibrating. The company said it was probably some wires nearby (there were some cable wires on the ground) so I unscrewed the cable wires and removed them from the area but that did not solve it. I have the unit in my garage. I am really getting discouraged and I”d appreciate it if you’d tell me what to check for.
Great site. To make my life easier I’d like to run under our gravel driveway by running the wire through a cement pipe — the kind you have to allow water to pass under the drive. The concrete is probably 2″ thick and 4″ of gravel lay on top. Do you see any issues with this?
Also is there a collar that combines a bark collar with a normal fence collar?
ADMIN – Hi Bob,
The only issue is that you will have to turn up the boundary width to get the signal up through the pipe and gravel, which may in turn make the boundary too wide at some other point.
Unfortunately, there is no combination bark and fence collar. If you do add a bark collar, I would wait about a month after I finished the dog fence training. That way you will avoid the dog getting confused between the two.
Hello,
I have about 11 acres that i have fenced with 3 elctric fence wires already surounding my property. Could i disconnect my bottom electric fence wire from the top and middle wire and use the bottom wire for my boundry wire? The bottom wire is about 12 inches off the ground!
ADMIN – Hi Ryans,
Unfortunately, you will need to run a difference wire. The wire needs to be insulated. Also, sometimes you will get interference between the dog fence wire and the electric fence wire and will need to separate them by a few feet. I would do a test strip from 20 feet or so and see if your system gets interference before stringing up all 11 acres.
We have put the 4100 around our 5 acres, but would now like to add an exclusion zone. To use the e-zone drawing above as an example, which is much like our house area, the transmitter is at the front of the house near the driveway and the twisted wired runs about 30 feet, parallel to the drive, out to the perimeter. The landscape area I wish to protect is directly along the front of the house and the twisted wire runs right through the driveway edge of the garden. The area is only about 6 feet wide, but it is the dog’s favorite area for digging (and he has five other acres he could dig!!). Can a small loop be run connecting to the same twisted wire that runs to the perimeter, or must I run another twisted line from the exclusion loop to perimeter?\
Hi Connie,
You can hang a loop off the twisted wire.
Another option if you are trying to protect a small area, is to use one of these new Pawz Away wireless outdoor pods that work with the 4100 (the rock).
For a backyard only installation can I use twisted wire along the house to complete the loop?
ADMIN – Hi Mathew,
You cannot use the twisted wire as part of the loop. The twisted wire is used to go from the transmitter box to the start of the loop. There are a few other options if you want to do a back yard only layout. (1) You can run the wire along the back of your house, up a downspout, through the gutter and down a downspout. This vertical height over the ground should let your dog get through. (2) run the wire tight around the front of the house. (3) do a U-shaped loop that doubles back on itself with six feet of separation between the sections of loop.
I am looking into getting one of your fences and it looks like I will need to do a loop of the house ( I only want to get the backyard covered). However, the flowerbeds I will need to run the wire through on one side of the house are very close. From the base of the window to the far side of the flowerbed is only about 2 to 3 feet. I saw that if you bury the wire deeper it will be less effective. If I set the wire to a 6 foot barrier on either side how deep would I need to bury the wire along the windows to prevent the dog being shocked inside the house? Thanks for the information, it has been very helpful.
ADMIN – Hi Dargan,
It will depend on what your walls are made out of and the type of soil. But, I would think you would need to go about one foot down. The only way to know for certain would be to bury a section and test it out.
I want to do a backyard only layout. The dog will be leaving the rear of the house through a 2nd story kitchen via a sliding door at the rear house exterior and onto a deck which is 9 feet above ground. The dog then enters the backyard by walking off the deck & going down the steps to the lawn below. Can I prevent shocking the dog if I have just one continuous backyard loop with a wire running along the ground at the back of the house’s exterior wall i.e. when the dog leaves the house it would be about 9 feet above the wire on the ground below.
ADMIN – Hi Phil,
Using the vertical separation and going under the deck works. As long as the boundary wire doesn’t get within say 8 feet (Assuming you set the boundary width to 5 feet, and want another 3 feet safety space) of the dog then you are all set. You also want to check the stair down to the yard to make sure they are not within 8 feet at any point. Also you want ot check that the signal is not getting through the back wall into parts of the house where you want the dog to be able to roam freely. If you do have that kind of separation, you are good to go!
We have a lakefront lot and would like to let the dogs go into the lake but not leave the property . Is this possible ? Thanks Tom
ADMIN – Hi Tom,
Hi Tom,
Establishing a water boundary is harder. but doable. It is harder because there is no easy way to get flags out ont he water and it is harder to train the dogs to quickly turn and retreat in the water if they cannot stand. The actual installation is easy. You can just run the wire through the water as per normal. Many people put the wire through an old hose and either float it across the surface or weigh is down.
You should also consider whether you want the dogs to have free reign over the water. Whenever we do this for clients with indoor dogs, they end up moving the boundary because the dogs swim and then track mud into the house.
Our backyard is fully fenced but I do want to keep the dog out of a garden area within the backyard. Can I make a loop around the garden which would therefore keep the dog on the outside of the circled garden?
ADMIN – Hi Kimberly,
To keep the dogs out of the garden area, a loop around the garden would work. But instead of a full fledged dog fence system, perhaps consider one of the Pawz Away outdoor pods. They are a pod that is designed specifically to keep the dog out of certain areas. You can either set them wirelessly to create a circular exclusion zone, or use them with up to 150 feet of wire to create a custom shaped exclusion zone. The outdoor pods are also a lot cheaper than a full regular system.
I live on a wooded mountainside and want to install this through the woods around my home (8 acres) to prevent our golden retreiver from following his sniffer too far. Can you recommend an easier visual training aid for large perimeter installations other than placing flags every few feet?
ADMIN – Hi Mark,
Sometimes we will spray a scent along the boundary to help dogs that have poor eye sight. But, flags have proven the easiest and most effective visual aid that we could find. It is possible to train the dogs without the flags but it is harder on the dogs, becaues they are basically finding the boundary by trial and error. If you can at all lay down the flags, I think you will be glad you did.
Great website!
What performance can I expect during winter? If a 6 foot snow bank is piled on top of the wire, will it work? What strategies do you recommend for upper midwest?
ADMIN – Hi Paul,
During the winter as the snow accumulates you need to turn up the boundary width to compensate for the additional snow covering. It can get through 3 feet of snow comfortably, but going through 6 feet of compacted snow would be very hit and miss. (It would be fine if the signal could get out the side of the snow bank and was only needing to get through about 3 feet of snow)
If you are going to need to turn up the boundary width, keep this in mind during the installation, because the boundary width will increase everywhere. So you will need to plan a layout where this does not cause problems. Some customers will lay a temporary wire in winter. They will just lay the wire on the surface about halfway through the season, and remove it during the thaw.
What about crossing blacktop? If I go underneath (I know a guy who works for the gas company and he can trench underneath the blacktop), will the dog receive a shock or will my dog have a free run down the driveway.
ADMIN – Hi Michael,
To get a cross blacktop, usually you would cut a slot with a circular saw, lay the wire and then seal over with an outdoor sealant or caulk. If you have a buddy that can trench under the driveway that is great, as long as he doesn’t go too deep (say more than a foot), the signal will still work through the ground and the driveway will still be active.
Hi… I am very pleased with your website and the answers you have given thus far. However i do have a question, (suprise suprise) we have 13 acres and two dogs. We would like to give them full acess to the entire property, but we have a section running through the middle of our property where there is about a foot of water that just stays there year round, some what of a swamp you could say. Would we be able to burry the wire under the water in the mud and it still work effectively? Or does the wire ruin or malfunction in the water?
ADMIN – Hi Sam,
You can run the wire through the mud, water, and swampy sections. If possible, I try and avoid doing any splices in those sections, but you can splice if you need to, just be sure to use the supplied waterproof splices.
The wire can deteriorate faster in swampy conditions, if the cover insulation layer gets damaged. But, otherwise you get comparable longevity to an underground installation. Some people will be extra cautious and place the wire in old garden hose pipe or some other conduit to give it further protection. It is worth doing if that area is hard to access and you want to be sure you never get a break there. But, otherwise I would not bother.
Hello,
I have a high-energy Brittany puppy that would roam away from home, but we keep her in the yard with a combination of a Petsafe Instant Fence and physical fence in the back yard. Actually, the physical fence is only about 3 feet high, and that hardly slows her down. But she has learned the hard way that if she jumps over the wooden fence on three sides, she’s going to get an unpleasant correction. However, the combination of wooden and Instant fences allow pup to get to the front yard where she like to go stand/sit/lie in the flower beds. Worse yet, she likes to also likes to jump up on the windows of the house and cover them with mud. So, I’m looking at two potential solutions: 1.) Install an underground fence to keep pup out of the front yard, or 2.) use the Pawz Away rocks (outdoor barriers) in the flower beds around the windows. However, option No. 2 would require pup to wear two collars at the same time. (I could probably mount both receivers on the same collar.) Would that be practical? Or should I just go ahead and install the undergound fence. Thanks, Dan
ADMIN – Hi Dan,
How is the PetSafe wireless working with containing the pup? If it is working well, I am not sure I would want to go to the expense of replacing it, and I might just supplement it with a second collar for the Pawz-Away. It is not the most elegant solution, but the Pawz-Away collars are pretty small. I don’t think you will be able to mount them on the stock collar, but with some creativity you could rig something up.
If the wireless is not working well, you could definitely replace it with wired. Since the dog is already trained, it should be pretty easy to retrain them. The presence of the physical fence will make installation much easier, because you can just string the wire along the existing fence without burial. The Innotek 4100 is compatible with the Pawz-Away outdoor pods so it will only need one colalr and be the more elegant solution.
I have 8 acres in the country. Property is half moon shape w/ county road being my primary concern. Labrador pup, plan on bury purchased 14 ga. wire.
Option #1 is loop within 1100′ road ditch only, w/ respect to the min. 6′ spacing. Just keep dog awat from road.
Option #2 is bury wire w/ visual referance points so the dog figures out the alfala field is differant than mowed yard. If I do #2, is the dog smart enough to know that when the collar is off, he can go wherever he pleases? When I’m home and outside, I want him to be able to go anywhere that I go. ie woods, pond, creek, etc.
ADMIN – Hi Chris,
Many dogs will not make the connection between the collar and the correction. I find the best way to do it is to first train the dog that they cannot go through the boundary – no exceptions. After a month and they are fully trained and confident on the system,
I then train them that it is ok to go through when they are accompanied by you. (http://www.dogfencediy.com/maintenance/walking-dog/)
Hope that helps
Are there any breed that these fences are not good for? I have a Staffordshire terrier and I have heard that they can run right through the fence line and the shock not bother them. Is there any truth to that?
ADMIN – Hi Molly,
The breeds that we find challenging are breeds that have been bred to have a very high degree of pain tolerance. Some Pitbulls, some German Shepherd, and wolf-hybrids are a good example. The reason these are so difficult is that the dog just doesn’t feel enough attention correction to redirect their attention back to the boundary rules. With these breeds, if you have a very high pain tolerance example you will find the training more difficult. You can get some clues by observing how the dog reacts when accidents happen such as someone accidentally stepping on a tail or the dog accidentally running into a wall.
With all breeds of dogs, training is by far the most important aspect of the fence installation. If the dog is sensitive to the correction and you do the training consistently 2-3 times a day for two weeks your will almost always get containment. While, terriers like to bolt they are both trainable and sensitive to the correction. If you put in the work to do the two weeks of training, I think both you and the dog will be very happy with the results.
I just ordered the Innotek 4100 and plan on installing a complete loop around our 1 acre property identical to your “perimeter dog fence layout”. The difference between your diagram and our property is that our driveway goes from the attached garage to almost the property line (down the complete driveway). When the utility companies came to mark the utility lines, there are 2 or 3 spots where there are only a foot or so from the utility line to the property line – putting the inground fence closer than the recommended distance. If I lay the wire and everything “works” – could I have a problem after I bury the wire? Also, is it a problem if the twisted wire ran along a utility line or didn’t cross at a 90 degree angle?
ADMIN – Hi Nancy,
If you do go closer than is ideal to the property line and don’t get any adverse effects when laying it on the surface, you should be fine. (What you are on the look out for is the signal getting into those lines and being transmitted everywhere those lines go) Burying a few inches down is unlikely to make a difference, so generally if it is fine on the surface it will be fine when buried. (but of course as always test before putting the collar on the dog!)
Twisted wire can run along utility lines because it is effectively not broadcasting any signal so there is little risk of the signal getting induced in the utility line.
Can the loop wire be run overhead on TV cable wire without affecting the TV reception?
ADMIN – Hi Ralph,
It should not cause any problems with your cable signal, but sometimes you can get the dog fence signal crossing into the cable wire which can cause anywhere the cable runs to become active. I would rig up a small trial section before doing the full installation to make sure this does not happen.
Just purchased the Stubborn dog setup from Petsafe for out 1 acre land. I have a very persistent German Shepard, Spitz mix who is getting up there in age (14). She has had a fence for many years and loves the Big Dogs (Cows). i am wanting to do just the back yard is it possible to just run twisted wire along the back side of the house in order to complete the loop? Also I really don’t want to purchase another 500′ roll for just a 50′ section of twisted wire. Is it possible to use a different type of wire to cancel out the signal. Thanks, Jason
ADMIN – Hi Jason,
There is no getting around having a complete loop of single wire. You can never used the twisted wire to complete the loop.
There are other solutions to the problem of doing a backyard only section. Take a look at the backyard only layouts above, and see if you can do one of the other options. (e.g. running the wire tight around the front of the house, or running the wire high overhead along the back of the house)
You can use almost any insulate copper wire as part of the loop. Try to find some wire at the hardware store that is rated for direct burial and similar in gauge to the wire you already have.
My neighborhood just passed a rules that cats have to be under the control of the owner. Can I use an invsible fence to let my 2 cats out into my yard? The smaller cat weigs 9.4 pounds. The other weighs 13 pounds.
ADMIN – Hi Mary,
There is a system made for cats. The correction on the PetSafe Cat Fence is toned down and has a smaller collar, because you don’t need as much to redirect a cat’s attention.
We live on a farm and would like to contain our dog to 15 acres of land; he’s a cattle dog and we want to include the pasture as accesible; basically putting up a very large perimeter fence. The fence around the perimeter of the pasture is a smooth wire high tensile fence that is electrified; many of the posts are metal t-posts with a wooden post every 20 yards. Can the wire be attached along the length of the fence or will the electrified fence cause problems with the signal? Can the wire be attached to the metal fence posts?
ADMIN – Hi Abbey,
Electric fences are hit and miss. Sometimes you get interference, or the dog fence signal jumping into the electric fence wire, so everywhere that wire goes, you also get the dog fence signal. Other times it works perfectly and you save a lot of time! The only good way we have found to figure out if it can be mounted on the same posts is to test mount a small section and see what happens.
I have a problem. I would like to prevent the dogs from digging out of our fenced backyard, however i would also like the dog to be able to retrieve his ball if it ends up being tossed next to the fence. Additionally i would like the dog to be able to go out in the front yard, what is the easiest way to make this happen. May house layout is almost identical to the drawing shown with the hour glass layout.
ADMIN – Hi Jim,
Afraid for the fence to work, you will have to stop the dogs being able to go near the edge of the property. So if a tossed ball ends up going too near the fence, you will have to retrieve it yourself, as the dogs once trained will not want to go near the fence.
If you want the dogs to be able to freely roam between the front and back, a big loop around the entire perimeter works best. If you want them to be able to use the front and back but not cross back and forth, then the hourglass layout is a better choice.
I have a 5 ft. aluminum fence on both sides of my lot and a chain link fence in back on my neighbors lot. Can i attach it to them?
ADMIN – Hi Dave,
Attaching the wire to the chain link fence is fine. But, a sheet metal aluminum fence is trickier. Sometimes that fence will magnify the signal and you will get a very big boundary in that area. The only way to know for sure is to test out a small section.
We have 2 Ridgebacks and we’ve been in our home for 6+ years and have a fully fenced chain linked fence. I don’t know the exact dimensions but I think our back yard is ~6500 square feet.
What I want to do is use the dog fence to train them to “go” in one section of the yard. They currently have the run of the yard and I’d like to begin keeping part of it clean so that WE can use it too
. We also want to let them continue to play in the entire back yard, but just train them to “go” only in the designated section. Would this bee too confusion? We’ve considered creating a “dog run” with the installation of additional traditional chain link fencing, but that would be prohibitively expensive. Would installing a dog fence be a suitable solution?
ADMIN – Hi Jocelyn,
A dog fence would not be a great solution. Once a dog is trained on an electric dog fence, it will be very not want to play on the other side of the fence, even if you give the dog permission. I think you would likely end up permanently limiting the dogs to using only half the yard.
I need to run part of my loop under my gravel driveway. I heard that I can use metal conduit burried 2″ deep. But I also heard that will cancel out the signal the same way that twisting the wire will. What are my other options for burying under gravel driveway ? PVC ?
ADMIN – Hi Adam,
We usually don’t have any problems with metal conduit. It certainly does not reliably cancel out signals, often it will amplify them. If you want something neutral that will have not effect on signals, we usually use flexible irrigation pipe (for underground sprinkler systems), or an old garden hose pipe – both are very cheap and available at any hardware store, the flexibility and smaller diameter make them easier to work with than PVC. PVC works too, but we find it a bit harder to work with, especially for long runs – you cannot for example use it with a trencher.
Would this modification to the backyard option work? Instead of running the wire around the front of the house , across the roof, or creating a double loop, could one use twisted wire across the back of the house to close the loop?
ADMIN – Hi Debra,
Unfortunately you cannot run the twisted wire as part of the loop – if you do it will act like single wire and be active. The twisted wire only works when used to connect (a) one loop to another loop; or (b) one loop to the control box.
We are considering purchasing one of the Innotek systems from you. However, before we do that we were wondering about the 500 ft. of wire that comes along. We have a 2.5 acre lot, so obviously 500 feet of wire is not going to enclose our lot. One of our friends told us that the more splicing you do, the weaker your system is and the more prone to breakages. If that is the case, we were wondering if you sold rolls of wire larger than 500 ft?
ADMIN – Hi Jessi,
We only sell the wire in 500 foot increments. Your local electrical supply store may be able to get you something bigger.
Splicing the wire is no big deal and make no difference to the system, it will not weaken the system or leave you more prone to breaks. Just, make sure when you splice to knot the wire first to make sure no tension goes on the joint and you should be all good. (this quick video may help)
http://www.dogfencediy.com/installation/laying-wire/splicing-the-cable/
I bought the Smart Dog system, but after seeing your video review (and having a similar initial reaction when first going through the box contents), I don’t want to waste my time installing it. So, here’s my question:
When we bought our house about 10 years ago it already had a hidden fence system, but we didn’t get a dog until about two years ago. By now, I have probably severed the line in a few places during various landscaping projects. Is it worth the effort to try to locate and repair the disconnects or just start from scratch? Also, assuming I can get the line fixed, will it work with any new system I buy?
ADMIN – Hi Steve,
I recommend installing new boundary wire. It’s not worth the headache in time and energy to repair an old boundary wire. If you rent an EZ Trench TP 400 or TP 300, you can run your new wire in half a days time. This trencher will dig a 3″ trench, lay the wire, back fill it, and make you a sandwich. While, I can’t guarantee the sandwich, I’m certain it will do the first three very well.
Hi, having trouble with my layout. We dont have many options to place the box so it has to be on the inside wall of the kitchen in back of the house. The problem is that in order to complete the loop we have to come around the house then up the center of the yard with twisted wire to connect to the box. The twisted wire will be about 30 feet long. Is that ok? No place in the garage for an outlet and the front porch sometimes get rain under there. It is just like the diagram shown where the twisted wire comes up the side of the house to complete to loop but mine will be up the center of the yard. Thanks!
ADMIN – Hi Destiny,
There’s no distance limitations with twisted wire, so 30 feet is absolutely okay.
My husband and I just moved into a new house last October. We have two dogs: a Basset Hound and a Black Mouth Cur. They are both outside-only dogs. The Basset is a real escape artist. We used to live on 30 acres and she would frequently escape her pen. We ran an electric fence around the whole thing, but we would have to turn it off to go in and out of the pen so it wouldn’t shock us when we opened the gate. Now we live in a neighborhood and I don’t think it would be safe to have the electric fence on the backyard fence in case someone unknowingly got shocked. The Basset has just discovered (after 6 months) that she can push under the yard fence and has gotten out twice in the last week. My dilemma is that in your training guide you talk about only using your system for 15 minutes 3 times a day before you let them go off the leash. Since they are outdoor-only dogs, they would need to wear it all of the time until they learned the boundary. How would you suggest we do this? And, since we take our dogs on walks almost daily, how do you suggest we train them if the only way in and out of the yard is through the gate with the boundary? I need something that will be effective immediately for the safety of my dog since she is not used to living near a street with traffic.
ADMIN – Hi Samantha,
If you’re dogs stay in the yard 24 hours, when you go to work contain the dogs however you were containing them before. If you need to crate or chain them, do it … it is a lot better than the dog continually escaping and being put at danger, it is just a short term measure.
As for the collar, you can try leaving the collar on 24/7 – lots of people do and it creates no problem, but be careful and check the neck every day for the first two weeks, then every week – a small number of dogs will get a skin reaction.
If you want to exercise your dog during training take the collar off and carry the dog over the boundary, or put them in the car and drive them over. You have to do something that makes it clear it is a very different context. Once they are trained we can train them to go through normally on command.
I need to keep my dog from going into one neighbors yard, but is ok for him to go into the yard on the opposite side of mine. Conventionally this would be a long thin loop (6 ft min spacing) only on one side of my yard. But this is very long, about 400ft. How much current is in the wire? Would it be possible to use the earth for the return and use only a single wire one way to a ground stake at the far end? The return contact on the transmitter would of course also have to be grounded through a similar stake. This would allow burying the wire only in 400ft instead of 2x 400ft. (this is how telephone wire worked in years gone by….only one wire run and the earth as the return path)
ADMIN – Hi Paul,
That’s not a solution we believe can work. The system only works in a continuous loop. 800 feet of wire isn’t a problem. Most of the systems like the Innotek 4100 have a capacity of 5,000 feet of wire. The difference in cost between running 400 and 800 feet of wire is around 20 dollars.
Hi, my question is coming from a totally different application. I live on a farm and would like to fence completely around my house to keep the dog away from the house. He is a destructive dog that likes to tear up EVERYTHING!! But he is great with the kids and we have given him freerange over our 120 acre farm. What (if any) feedback do you have from customers who wish to use the underground dog fence in this manner?? If it helps it is a large 2 year old lab and maybe not the smartest dog in the pack.
ADMIN – Hi Laura,
You can use a system the opposite way to most people to keep the dog away from the house. This is usually very easy, and requires even less training, because the dog cannot run through the boundary and gets the correction continuously untill the retreat back away from the house.
You just install the wire, around the perimeter of the house, put up the flags, and then train the dog in much the same way you would if you were doing containment.
I would like to run a complete loop right around our property, with the wire crossing our driveway through the expansion joint closer to the road. I would like the coverage on the driveway to prevent them from having free access.
My question is do I have to remove the collar everytime we take them in the car (once a day sometimes more) to prevent them from getting zapped as we back down the driveway, or will the car itself protect them from the shock. Thank You
ADMIN – Hi Charlie,
Sometimes the height of the car above the ground lets you drive them over without triggering the collar. But this is hit and miss. I like to play it safe and always take the collar off the dog before taking them for a ride in the car.
I just installed the Innotek IUC4100 around appx. 2 acres of my property, but have a physical fence that lies along one section of the property line (maybe 300 feet long). There’s a pathway that runs directly alongside the fence that I want my dog to be able to follow, but I need to have the boundary wire far enough away so he doesn’t get zapped or warned. Since I have a nasty neighbor on that side, asking him if I can run the wire on his property isn’t an option…so here’s my question: presuming I have the boundary width set to between 5 & 6 feet, can I run the boundary wire along the top of the 6-foot high fence without fear of giving my dog a correction? Is this my best and/or only option (other than digging a 7-foot-deep trench…NOT!!)?
ADMIN – Hi Joan,
Elevating the wire to the top of the fence is a great way to reduce the distance that signal travels. If the fence is six foot high, I might turn down the boundary width to 3-4 feet just to be conservative and give hte dog a bit of a safety buffer when walking on the pathway.
Hello,
We recently purchased a Petsafe fence for our German Shepard. Our neighbor already has an electrical fence installed along the property line. How close to the neighbors fence can I place our fence? Also, if I want to try the back yard installation over the back of the house, how high up does the wire need to be so the dog can enter the house safely? Thank you
Sheryl
ADMIN – Hi Sheryl,
You want to keep your fence wire twelve feet from the neighbor’s fence wire. Otherwise you will get the two fences interfering along the common boundary and neither will work on that common boundary. Another option is to use the Perimeter Technologies or newly updated SportDog SDF-100 – these systems let you adjust the transmission frequency so that you can avoid interfering with your neighbor’s system.
The vertical clearance you need over the dog depends on how wide you have the boundary set up. I like to add three feet of safety space to the boundary width. So if you want the boundary to be four feet wide, I would want seven feet of clearance over the dog’s head to be comfortable with the installation.
Have a question concerning installation. We are buying a house with 2.6 acres that is 95% fenced. The only open area that we want to wireless fence is the driveway entrance. Can we make a loop around the driveway/gate area only? Or do the dogs have to be contained inside the loop?
ADMIN – Hi Mike,
You have two options:
(1) Use one of the Pawz Away Outdoor Zone Pods – and create a small loop just across the driveway entrance. This option will be a lot easier and cheaper. But, the outdoor zone systems are not quite as high quality. I would try this option first.
(2) Use a Full System – you would run twisted wire from the transmitter (in the house or garage) out to the driveway, then do a small loop at the driveway or gate area.
The small loop would just cross the driveway at the point you want to block them, then cross back somewhere six plus feet away. This small loop will create a barrier. The dogs do not need to be contained in the loop, you can use the loop as a barrier too.
Thanks for the wonderful info. I am planning out my system and would love your assistance before purchasing (from you!)
I basically have a square lot with the house in the center. We need the fence on three sides but not the fourth, which is a wood fence the dogs like to lean against to get out of the sun. I do not have enough room on one side to just make a double loop back (don’t have 9 feet before the yard area) so am trying to figure out how to loop wire down the ’shade’ fence.
I am thinking of making one large loop, then making another loop that is twisted out to that shade fence, then twists up and down that side to fully deactivate it. The question: can I run a twist involving three runs of wire instead of two: the main loop line, plus the second line that is fully twisted either on itself then the main line, or just fully braided with the main line?
Thank you.
ADMIN – Hi Tim,
Unfortunately twisting three wires will reactivate the line. There is really no way to avoid having a full loop of active single wire. If that shade fence is high enough (6+ feet) – one thing you could do is run the wire along the very top of that fence. The vertical height over the dogs would let them go right up to the base of the fence without getting the correction.